Online recruitment red flags
Am I being paranoid? (talking to a girl online and something feels off)
Note: this is the first group which came up when I googled about my doubts - so pls let me know if this is not relevant or if there's somewhere else I should ask and I can remove it. Also it's a long message, cos I'm bad at summarizing and just needed to get this off my chest.
About me - 19 yrs, female, uni student, Australia
A few days ago, a girl sent me a friend request on facebook (she was in a Christian fb group I had just joined) and private messaged me as well. Usually people start of with something like "Hey I saw you on ___ group and thought I'd say hi" and cycle through some awkward small talk. This girl however started the conversation asking me a specific question (about uni) and then when I replied, she said she thought I was someone else and apologised.
No biggie, this is when I thought the conversation would end. But she continued asking how I was doing with covid, I was bored so I replied.
There were just some little things in the conversation I felt weird about, I'll list them, I'm just not sure if I'm overreacting or being paranoid, so some guidance is appreciated :)
- she asked me what my hobbies are and specifically if I like singing, when I said yes, she was disproportionately enthusiastic and asked me what my favourite worship music is, whether I go to Hillsong etc (this was fine, it just felt very specific, and her extreme freindliness continued throughout the convo)
- she asked where I go to church, but didn't really give me a clear answer when I asked her
- she asked why I came to Au and whether I was on student visa or PR - this felt weird so I just said something about my family moving on PR - she replied asking specifically if that meant I was a PR (I didn't reply to this)
- I asked whether she came from a Christian background, she said she was brought up catholic and said something about questioning rituals/traditions - I have quite a few catholic friends with whom I had discussed that so I mentioned that, and asked what made her decide on Christianity.
She gave me a vague answer about how she didn't have a problem with catholicism and asked what me and my friends discuss because she likes those kind of topics - I told her on of our main points of contention was about faith and works.
She asked what my views on the salvation plan were? And also asked if I wondered why there were so many different denominations. I gave a pretty long answer (for a text convo) about my position of faith and works (basically that salvation is a gift not a reward and you are saved through grace by faith alone, and that good works are not done to be saved but because we are saved)
- After this she said "I see your point of view" asked me if I like reading verses, not reading the Bible, just verses, sounded weird to me. She also asked me if I ever wondered why I can't see God/purpose of life? Said she had wondered them and that she understood when a person took the time to "explain it to [her] directly from the bible without adding their own opinions on it", she then proposed that we talk about the Bible over zoom.
- when I off handedly mentioned asking my pastor a question about the topic - she asked me if I was 'close' with my pastor and if I was part of any cell groups'.
- Since she wanted to keep talking about and hadn't really told me her thoughts, I asked what her point of view was on the topic of salvation by faith she wouldn't really reply and suggested again that we talk about it on zoom. when I asked if she identified within particular denomination, she said no ( I was just hoping to get some insight on what her theological views were)
- I told her that I'd appreciate some insight over text first before any call, she said she actually teaches this stuff and to "clearly convey and articulate God's message, I arrange a time with my students so that this enables me to deliver his heart properly" (okay fair, but I honestly just wanted to make sure we were on the same page)
- Since she said she teaches, I asked if she was part of a church group- again a vague answer about no she wasn't she had just travelled overseas and is a missionary
- Today she invited me to a "devotion event" that her friend invited her to. I asked who is running the event and she sent me an Instagram page called 'Letters of Christ' - their last advertised event was Aug 1 (but she mentioned of two today and some tomorrow - asking when I was free)
- when I pressed, she told me the theme was prayer and "helping people in their life of faith during this lockdown period"
There's just something which isn't sitting right with me, but I don't want to brush of someone who is actually looking for a Christian friend..
UPDATE! Since making the post, the girl has blocked me, removed her profile picture and changed her last name on fb.
Thank you everyone SO MUCH for taking the time to give me your advice, it helped me feel not crazy paranoid like I thought I was.
Although I barely experienced anything, I am so thankful that such a community exists and really appreciate the insight you give for people who have been pulled into this.
I am so worried for others in the group they can target and exploit, especially since I see so many posts of people unsure of the faith or Bible, eager to read with others, it just makes me feel so helpless to do anything :(
> Another girl who I was talking to (but I was not nearly as suspicious of initially) just invited me to a youth group.
I asked her what church it was part of. Apparently it's "seperate from church actually, this is non-denominational and for young adults going to uni".
I asked her for a website, it was apparently down. I straight up asked her if she was part of this cult, and she proceeded asked me "what is you fav jewel" (like whaaat kind of deflection is that) then basically tried to tell me that she didn't know about them.. then blocked me.
It sickens me that people my age can so easily be baited by this and I can totally understand why, but wow it's so scary that they might be reaching out to newer Christians who won't recognize them twisting God's Word.
> OKAYY.. do I have a target painted on my face or something.
Another girl (3rd within 2 days) who messaged me last night, kinda got straight to it this evening, inviting me to a "non denominational bible study,so uni students and even ppl from overseas are joining cause is online", asked what it's about I got "value of time, knowing that bible talks about eternity and many of us young people...don’t usually think about future"... and proceeded to send me the EXACT same flyer as the second girl.
Like what? How do they decide on people to message? Or do they just message loads of ppl and hope something sticks? My head hurts.
edit: sorry about the atrocious grammar, my mind is just not in a great place
COMMENTS
#In any of your social media, what scj members typically look for is anything related to faith, Christianity, God, or Jesus.
Scj recruiters also look up school Christian club members for potentials to Dm/Pm. Their mindset is ,”if you just do it, it will work” MHL says it a lot for members to recruit like crazy. (It’s one of his yeast of heaven/moral instructions).
They will take advantage of any opportunity they can to recruit a believer.
Seems like the scj members in Australia are not that organized when it comes to recruiting.
Sometimes scj people will evangelize to each other, in the same local region, without knowing it.
But when things become obvious that both parties are scj members, they ask each other, “what’s your fav color?” (Each tribe has a color/jewel that represents its tribe.)
For instance, I had the same experience where I was being evangelized to.
We noticed our tactics were the same.
They asked me what’s my fav color and I responded “emerald green (jewel + color)” (basically saying I’m scj member from John tribe).
Then we get very happy that we come across another scj member. it’s a weird thing but it helps to identify if the other person is an scj member.
#Hi there, good that you're looking for advices. I think you potentially save yourself from falling into a cult.
I don't want to say 100%, but I'm pretty certain that it's linked to Shincheonji cult. There are keys steps in their recruitment. You can keep them in mind so to protect yourself.
- Residency - because there are many international students in countries like Australia. They don't want to spend months teaching someone who will eventually return to their own countries. So Aus citizen or PR.
- They mainly look for Christians and Catholics, someone who is in the leadership positions would be ideal, so they can quickly build up their branch in the region. However, they avoid "spiritually rich" people - ones are knowledgable about the bible.
- After that, they try to raise your curiosity about the bible by asking questions like the ones you've heard.
- They invite you to their "Christian events - fellowship, music, food, devotion, worship etc often in the name of connecting fellow believers". But these events lead you to join their future events.
- At the end of their events, they often introduce you to their mini bible study: topics like good and evil, why Jesus is the Messiah? what choice pleases God? 4 types of fields, bible is a book of covenant etc. (they may change the topic, but the idea is to make you feel fearful of not keeping the covenant)
- These then make you to join their formal bible course in order to "keep the NT covenant". The course goes for 6-8months. (I hope you never reach this stage)
- Meanwhile they try to find out about your hobbies and interests. So during their events and bible study, you have a "like-minded" companion.
I hope they are helpful to you.
#Hi! Glad you reached out :)There’s no bullet proof way to tell this is them but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the chances it is are pretty high.
Some things that stood out to me from my experience with shincheonji when evangelizing was that we couldn’t give too much information away.
If people asked what church we belonged to they would advice to say we were part of a missionary church.
At events like concerts we invited people to go to we would have a front name that wasn’t shincheonji.
They also emphasize recruiting people who are “like us” which meant young, believer, willing to devote a significant amount of time to study the Bible, I’m guessing that’s why she wanted to know your status in the country.
They also like to mention frequently that there are so many denominations but isn’t there only one truth ? This reeled me in for sure.
I remember my recruiter asked me so many questions like what school I went to, if I was working, what my plans are ...stuff that you wouldn’t ask a complete stranger.
Once I was in they frequently asked what our hobbies/talents were.
The fact that she mentioned that someone explained the Bible to her directly “without adding their own opinions on it” is highly incriminating in my opinion because shincheonji does not accept bible commentaries, NONE.
They like to say all their teachings are bible-based, no need for interpretations.
Also the language “cell group” is a common term in shincheonji.
They have “cell leaders” in charge of the cell, I never actually joined one because thankfully I got out by that time.
I’m thinking if you were to have said that you are close to your pastor you wouldn’t be an easy person to bait.
Also, a weird question to ask from the get-go. I think she is shincheonji, again there’s no way I can be 100% sure but I would advice you to follow your gut.
I know they have started to evangelize again and on the web too.
Before I left they were having online seminars that they wanted us to invite our friends to and they were talking about strategies to reach people through social media.
One of my classmates got recruited through a Christian app aimed at making friends. Some of them are even on bumble.
They are serious about getting people.
See all the comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/im7mdv/am_i_being_paranoid_talking_to_a_girl_online_and/
