Interview with a former SCJ executive - News & Joy
2017.02.22
News & Joy-Reporter Yong-pil Lee
"Manhee Lee is not an immortal, but an old man who is about to die." said Kim Jong-cheol with a bitter expression while drinking a sweet cafe mocha. He joined Shincheonji in 2001 turning his back on his family. He gave his body and soul to the work and took advantage of his connections. In the headquarters of the Gwacheon General Assembly, he became director of the Young Adults Group and then executive director of the Liaison Ministry which is said to be the police and the National Intelligence of Sincheonji: it manages dissidents, including existing believers, and investigates and handles dissent in the tribes and in general meetings. Mr. Kim has served as an executive director of the Liason Ministry for over two years.
After being employed there for two years, in 2012 he turned his back on Shincheonji. Shincheonji members believe that Lee Man-hee is 'the Counselor' and the 'overcomer'. Mr. Kim also believed the chairman to be the Son of God and he followed him. However, somewhere along the process of the Gwacheon temple construction, he felt that something was wrong. Knowing that may have been a 3 billion won swindle (almost 2 million 500 thousand USD), he made direct report to the chairman Lee Man-hee. However, he did not get any praise but only cursing and demotion. He was expelled from the Liaison Ministry and sent to the Special Forces of the Incheon branch that only conducted evangelism.
At the time, he didn't understand the reasons of his demotion. He firmly believed in the words of an official of the General Assembly: “Just overlook this incident, and in three months I will bring it up again for you”. However, this promise was never kept. He felt deceived. He looked at the fruit of good and evil (Internet), which in Shincheonji is strictly forbidden, and he met Rev. Shin Hyun-wook, an ex Shincheonji member, and the director of <Modern Religion>, Tak Ji-won.
After he discovered the truth, Kim Jong-cheol stood against the 'overcomer'. In December 2012, he disclosed the suspicions about tax evasion and about Lee Man-hee's inappropriate relations with female believers. Recently, he appeared on the CBS podcast 'Cyphan' and revealed: " I heard the chairman of Shincheonji, Lee Man-hee, mention the name of the Saenury Party".
Shincheonji did not deny the existence of Mr. Kim. In a call with <News & Joy> on February the 20th, they said, "Mr. Kim served as a director of the Liaison Ministry, but was expelled last December. He has no relationship with us anymore".
Besides the relationship between Shincheonji and the Saenuri Party, I was interested in finding out how he got out of Shincheonji and about the situation inside Shincheonji. On February the 21st, I met Kim Jong-cheol at a cafe in Sillim-dong, Seoul. I asked him in detail how he fell into Shincheonji and what he saw and felt while working. Below is a summary of the conversation with Mr. Kim.
Shincheonji is known for its deceitfuf recruiting techniques. How were you recruited?
My case is slightly different. My brother-in-law entered a free theology school in front of the Yangji Hospital in Sillim, Seoul, and was very happy with that. They only taught the Bible, it was free, and he introduced it to the rest of the family but at the same time he said, "All the pastors are thieves. They are bad guys." I had been going to church since elementary school and had always been curious about the Bible. I was thirsty for the Word of God, but the pastors didn't teach properly. I went to the free theology school because my brother in law said it was good. It was a 'gospel room' operated by Shincheonji. So I went there on my own.
How was the mood when you first went to the theology school?
I was introduced to this gospel room by my brother in law and there was an evangelist that taught me. He opened the Bible, the same used in regular churches, and took out his notebook. He explained the Word the whole time. He pulled out a sequence of passages from the Bible and explained them, it was like a breath of fresh air, the way the Word came to me. It was an amazing experience. As a Sunday School teacher, I also became confident that I could teach children well. The contents were good, so I continued to attend the gospel room without my sister knowing.
Why did you keep it secret?
I was told not to tell anyone. When I was about to reveal that I was attending a theology school they said, "They might prevent you from learning." Nevertheless, I really wanted to tell somebody. Then one day, my brother-in-law had a great fight with my sister on the matter of faith, and I joined in. I told my sister, "Do you know about God and Jesus? The pastors are all corrupt". On that occasion, I took my three-year-old child and moved out of my sister's house to Sillim-dong. My sister thought I had joined an heretical church. Though I wasn't convinced, I thought I could have become a priest and get salvation.
When did you get to know about the chairman Lee man-hee?
It took about six months to complete the education from the elementary to the advanced level in the Gospel Room. I first heard about him when I was attending the advanced course. They taught about the chairman Lee Man-hee. "There are those whom Jesus chose, and he is the 'overcomer', chairman Lee Man-hee." I wanted to see the person Jesus had chosen as soon as possible. I wanted to go to Gwacheon Church where he was. Shincheonji believers regard Gwacheon Church as a special place. You can often see Lee Man-hee preaching, so it is an even greater honor. Gwacheon is under the jurisdiction of John, the oldest of the 12 tribes. It is also called the headquarters of the General Assembly. Believers living in Seoul, Sillim, Geumcheon, and Apgujeong are allowed into the Gwacheon Church. They are especially proud to be the chosen ones. Other believers who do not live in these areas should go to one of the divisions of the 12 tribes. They cannot go to Gwacheon Church unless they move their residence.
How did you feel when you first met the chairman Lee Man-hee?
When I finished the course, I saw the chairman for the first time. However, my seniors told me not to stare at him. "He can scan your mind and see through it. He can see every lie." He is said to be God wearing the Spirit of Jesus, so I tried to hold his hand somehow. I took courage and asked for a handshake, but he didn't accept.
How are the Shincheonji Headquarters organized?
The General Assembly has 24 departments, including the Ministry of Public Relations, Ministry of Finance, International Affairs, Ministry of Information and Communication, Ministry of Liaison and Justice. It is divided into 7 superintendents and 24 department elders, including the chairman Lee Man-hee. Each department head receives a monthly wage of 300,000 won and works full time. The departments have different organizations. Some have a managers and secretaries, and others have only managers. Among the various departments, the Liaison Department is a special one, so it has both, managers and secretaries. I ended up quitting my job in order to devote myself to the work there. I quit my job and was appointed leader of the local area. Even in Shincheonji there are ranks and I tried hard, so I became leader of the Young Adults Group. At that time, the Young Adults Group of the Gwacheon Church alone counted 500 or 600 people. After that, I served as an executive manager for the Liaison Ministry.
It seems like the Liaison Department has a key role in Shincheonji. How did you get there? What did you do?
I was intimate with the senior manager of the Liaison Ministry, which was very close to Yoo Cheon-sun, Lee Man-hee's wife. At the time, I was recommended as a Liaison Ministry manager. In Shincheonji, the Liaison Ministry serves the same purpose of the Public Prosecution and the National Intelligence. I was trained to recognize internal cases and external affairs, defend Shincheonji against slanderers, and respond to the parents of run-away kids. The Liaison Ministry calls the leaders of the Liaisons Departments of each tribe for the education, and it arranges the movements of the chairman during the General Assembly. As it is powerful, it is a very coveted position.
The pay is less than I thought. Is it possible to live on 300,000 won?
It is not easy. Meals are served at a restaurant run by the Gwacheon Church. The Women Group takes care of the meals. Full-time workerss eat for free. There is a farm near the church, you can also grow radishes and cabbages. From time to time, saints buy lunch or even give some pocket money. Some people would scratch your back treating you for lunch. I had a lot of work, so I hardly cared about the house. After the divorce, I met my current wife in Sincheonji, and my wife became the breadwinner. She would often get angry and say: "I am in Shincheonji too, why am I the only one working?" In those moments, I tried to soothe her with 'textbooks'. Compared to ordinary believers, executives are more likely to obtain textbooks. She loved receiving textbooks.
Are textbooks so important?
For the saints, they are relatively difficult to get. So, they are valuable to them. A textbook with the signature of the chairman (Lee Manhee) can cause an uproar. Some of the saints knew that I was the leader of the Liaisons Ministry and approached my wife asking for a book.
You even served as a senior executive but you opposed the chairman. It is not common, I think it is going to be difficult to fight against him.
We came across an opportunity but it didn't feel quite right. We were having a hard time because of the Gwacheon Temple construction. The authorities wouldn't grant us the permission we needed. At the time, a builder approached us and proposed to the chairman to get the permission after 3 billion won. I got to know this through a different channel. I made some research and it turned out the builder was a swindler. I thought it was a big issue. 3 billion is not a small sum, so I told to the general secretary. But he didn't report to the president. Then I went to talk to Yoo Chun-soon but she didn't report either. I thought that was bad, so I contacted the chairman's driver and I asked him to meet up. But he was not available, so I got him to pass the phone to the chairmain. When I called at Jamsil Sports Complex, the chairmain said abruptly: "Who are you, leave me alone". I called the general secretary and he said I was dismissed. I was sent to the Incheon Special Forces. He called me after a while but he said absolutely nothing. At the time I thought it was strange and I started to make some research on the chairman. When I met Pastor Shin Hyun-wook and Director Tak Ji-won, I learned that Manhee Lee is fake, he is not real. The lid was completely open. So I revealed through various interviews the suspicions about tax evasions and the problems with women of the chairman that had been known since 2012, but were covered. Then, I received a call from the chairman Lee Manhee. "Do you know me? How would you like a good scolding? In what unit did serve in the army?" Suddenly he hung up and I couldn't speak.
Have you been victim of intimidation after you revelations?
I have been followed, but not threatened. Since I have noticed they stopped following me.
The Republican Governor Shin Dong-wook said he visited Sincheonji and the Unification Church to make his sister in law Park Geun-hye president. Have you ever seen the new governor?
The Liaisons Department also invite politicians, but I have never met him. He may have met chairman Lee Man-hee through another channel.
Rumors say that in Shincheonji there is a dispute over Lee Man-hee's succession.
For a long time, the dispute has been between the chairman's wife, Yoo Chun-soon, and Kim Nam-hee. Kim Nam-hee belongs to Apgujeong, and, to the chairman desire, she has be en rapidly promoted to second-in-command. As a result, the Apgujeong district is holding the administration, the Ministry of Information and Communication, and the Ministry of Culture. The emerging Kim Nam-hee has grown to the point that the General Assembly noticed her. In addition to the interna.l fight for power, some people have left. When I was there, there were already 17 or 18 people. These people insist that they are the true overcomers, and not the chairman (Lee Man-hee) and claim the doctrine is wrong.
Besides the struggle for power, various suspicions surrounding the chairman Lee Manhee have already been revealed in various media reports. Is there any internal backlash?
The saints don't believe the media. In Sincheonji, the Internet is regarded as 'the fruit of good and evil'. They are told not to look at it, otherwise they will die. Only the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Information and Communication can look at the Internet. The other believers are told: "Wasn't there an enemy at Jesus first coming? The internet is the enemy of our time". The Ministry of Information and Communication responds to those sites that harm Shincheonji.
Do you think that even the executives believe the chairman Lee Man-hee to be the 'overcomer' and 'God's child'?
The saints believe that President Lee Man-hee never dies. He is literally 'immortal'. Unlike the saints, the 7 superintendents of education, the 12 tribe leaders, and the 24 department heads know that Manhee Lee is not immortal. How could he be immortal? He had a back surgery and was in a wheelchair. He is only an old man who is about to die. The doctrine is getting more and more inconsistent. The awaited 144,000 people have been surpassed a long time ago. Still, nothing has changed. Rev. The former superintendent of education Shin Hyun-wook pointed this out. The executives know that Lee Man-hee is neither the Counselor nor the overcomer. But why do you think they follow him? It is because if they leave Shincheonji they have nothing to do right now and they would be treated poorly.
What do the 12 tribes do?
Let's take the highest ranks in the tribe. They handle the personnel and the finances. They also preach. But there are tribe leaders that do what they want. They intercept money or touch women. I witnessed a lot of these abuses while working in the Liaison Ministry. Sincheonji is also very corrupted.
Even so, Shincheonji continues to grow.
Currently, it is stagnant at 170,000. It is not like it used to be. The public opinion about Sincheonji is bad and it is difficult to be steady. On top of that, many people are expelled because they have to make money and they can't work properly.
Is there anything you would like to say to the people in Shincheonji?
I hope you are awake. I was blind and deaf, I thought there was only Shincheonji. I hope you could research the truth about Shincheonji once. You have to question, but not too much. What fruit of good and evil ... The information spreads quickly. When the chairman Lee Man-hee dies, I think it will become a big social issue. I came out after more than 10 years, but what about those who have devoted 30 years of their life? Who will take responsability. People who have been disconnected from the world for a long time can make extreme choices.
Surprisingly, young people seem to be easily persuaded . Is there a reason?
They can't get a job, and the world is a chaos. They don't know what to do with their lives. Of course the idea of the 'Kingdom and priests' is tempting. The priests must save the world. Shincheonji teaches that when they will be clothed with the spirits of the martyrs, people from all over the world will come and greet them.
Have you lived your faith after coming out of Sincheonji?
Of course. I continue. However, I feel that most sermons are boring. I would like them to preach the Word in the Bible, it's a pity that they keep mixing in other stories.
Is there anything else that you would like to say?
As its core doctrine, Shincheonji turned Lee Man-hee into God. This is the problem. I think it would have been different if its core had been the real Jesus.
Here is the original article:
https://www.newsnjoy.or.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=209090
Disclaimer! I am neither a native korean speaker nor a professional translator and all the English subtitles and translations are by no means official. They are just part of my personal research on SCJ that I want to share with you.
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